介绍：Fully functional Macintosh for 1/3 the price.
Faisal Hassan: Doesn't 'Look like the MacBook'.
Philip Brechler: ... That looks like shit and doesn't come with any warranty.
Sercan Demircan: Seems very suspicious by the way, no contact, no company info, no guarantee.
Aidan Wolf: Wish I thought of this 4 years ago. I was accessing a virtual Mac at $10/hr to compile my iOS builds. Good times.
Eric Diepeveen: That is one ugly laptop.
Nemoy Rau: The problem with hackintoshes is, you would have be pretty versatile in Chimera vs Clover vs Chameleon. Unless the webpage has a lot of FAQ, walkthrough and guides for every OS update, it can be frustrating for users who are not used to tonymac / hackintosh upkeeping
Thanks for the hunt @_jacksmith. I started HacBook Elite as a half-serious joke last year while in college studying Product Design. I needed to run OS X to develop iOS apps on Xcode and, being the struggling college kid that I was, didn't have $$$ laying around to drop on a new (or used) MacBook. So I got into the world of hackintoshes and realized there's no pre-built, ready-to-run product that non-technical folks (or Hackintosh enthusiasts) can just buy and start using. So I threw up the website and decided to try selling units.
To clarify, HacBook Elite is a ready-to-run *kit* that doesn't come with OS X installed. It ships with everything besides that (i.e. Laptop, compatible WiFi chip, charger, user-friendly guide to getting started, customer support, etc). I'll update the website to make this clearer. Thanks!
Ilya M: lame non-retina-ready site
Hey all! we were just featured on THE NEXT WEB
Louis de Vaumas: "HacBook Elite has the same hardware specs as a 2013 MacBook Pro", 2013?? Like, 3 y-e-a-r-s ago?
Andrew Pelletier: All the negativity is really a shame. This is amazing.
cdf1982: It's as awful as you'd expect. I won't feel sorry for them when Apple rightfully shuts them down in 5 minutes...
Louis Magnotti: This seems like more of a .onion kind of thing than a product hunt kind of thing.....
Imran Hussain: Apple's cease and desist letter coming in 3.. 2.. 1..
Fraser Smith: How long before Apple's lawyers are all over this and it's all over?
Olivier El Mekki: This probably won't live long, but really Apple, we need something like this. It's now easy to build crossplatform mobile apps thanks to react-native, but you have to buy a mac just to build iOS apps. Mac Mini is an option, but it's still more expansive and you need a monitor. Please be dev friendly and keep this alive.
Lauren Holliday: I have friends who can't afford a Mac. I think this is phenomenal.
Igor Stumberger: Really curious on the battery life, I couldn't find anything on the webpage...do you have any data on that?
Suhaili Sahiful Bahari: Ship this thang! :)
Steve Gertz: Interesting product! Good luck guys
Ethan Thomas: Is it okay to resell HP's laptops? I see a HP/Apple cease and desist...Great idea but not for PH.
Saleem J. Yaqub: What will happen with future OSX updates?
Jagan Mohan R: This is why we can't have nice things. Somebody has to try to make money out of it and now Apple might tighten its OS X and can make it virtually impossible to install on non-apple hardware.
Chad Fullerton: @imran_hussain1 Looks like it doesn't come with OS X installed, it's just a hardware 'kit' which might help get around the issue of not being licensed for OS X?
Will Wright: @imran_hussain1 @_jacksmith HackBook just seems like another @jack7kim scam to me… Isn't it just a wiped out HP ELITEBOOK 8460p? Even the pictures on their website are the same. Oh, their "community" tell you how to install OSX (illegally)? Well, so does YouTube. Can anyone explain the value in this?
Daniel Fischer: @imran_hussain1 Yeah – there's no way it's legal to say "Looks like a Mac. Feels like a Mac" this is going to be a huge violation... I like the idea but the branding is definitely in violation and honestly it doesn't look like a Mac. The body is very unattractive. I like the ethos and point of this product but it doesn't come in an aesthetically pleasing body, and definitely not anything resembling a Mac. But honestly, I'd embrace that. Build a kit that embraces hackintosh's but don't try to look like a Mac. Make it even more hacker-like.
☆ Trevor Gerzen ☆: @mrahmadawais I was wondering about this myself.
@mlsj1 @cdf1982 @_jacksmith Is it apt? You don't see many companies selling pre-jailbroken iPhones, do you? Jailbreaking, like Hackintosh building isn't really mainstream.
If I saw somebody selling pre-jailbroken iOS devices here on ProductHunt, my reaction would be the same. C&D coming in 3… 2… 1…
cdf1982: @_jacksmith @frassmith you keep referring to jailbreaking, but the case here is different: you don't purchase OS X, as the current version is only available for free specifically to be installed on Apple hardware (infact, the SLA points out that it's a license); on the other hand, you buy your iPhone, you don't license its hardware. Not a fitting comparison.
cdf1982: @_jacksmith yes, for a version released 5 years ago.
@_jacksmith I'm not here to be made fun of, and we both know that's definitely not what is going to happen.
And even if it was true (and it's not) Apple sustained significant costs to develop OS X 10.8, 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11, costs that are covered by hardware purchases: the OS is free because you pay for it with the hardware; if you buy 10.7 for less than 20 USD, install it on that "fully functional Mac" (which probably isn't even possible, since the hardware is pretty new) you hunted and then upgrade to 10.11, you're still not doing something that is morally right, nor respectful of the operating system license.
Having said that, if you don't care, I won't gain anything trying to convince you. Have a nice day.
@_jacksmith You linked to OS X 10.7 Lion, the last paid version of OS X that shipped in 2011. We're currently in 2016, and HacBook Elite website states it "ships with everything needed to start running the latest version of OS X". Which you can't pay for, as you already know.
But hey, the official website also declares it a "fully functional Mac", which is also an Apple trademark, so it's pretty clear to me that our conversation isn't going anywhere productive, as this "product" isn't going to ship.
Chad Fullerton: @imran_hussain1 True. Using the "Mac" trademark anywhere could still get them in trouble for sure.
Imran Hussain: @chad_fullerton going by history, this doesn't make a difference to Apple. They have shut down such companies in past who sell hardware under the disguise of cheaper Macs which can run OS X.
@cdf1982 it doesn't come installed with Apple's OS. You buy that after market and install it. And in that case it is a very grey area if that is illegal; as it is currently being argued that if you buy some software, you should be able to install it where you want.
I don't get why you feel the need to be so negative about it, just because you don't personally agree with the principle. It's someone's project, I'm sure that you wouldn't like it if someone called your task manager 'awful'.
Good point Jack,
I just worry that some of those people that post these products don't know that they can get into some serious legal stuff just for posting the product they want the internet to see.
But a big question to ask regarding that is: will HP let people redistribute their laptops? Or parts from their products?
(ᵔᴥᵔ)✌: @_jacksmith o weird, its back for me too! Thanks for the heads up.
Jack Smith: @sawyerfeels the site is live for me...
@nraush I use Clover after returning to hackintoshing after 5'ish years, and I have yet to touch my hackintosh outside of initial installation. It's pretty amazing actually, esp. coming from the old school hackintosh days where pretty much anything and everything broke your install and you had to troubleshoot it.
Been running mine now for 1 year, and through all the various updates, nothing has broke once.
Noah Kim: @ericdiepeveen I think it's kind of endearing, borderline retro.
@_jacksmith @evankimbrell That process used to be a PITA, but nowadays it's ALMOST a 1-2 click process. If you have an image or install CD with all the right drivers for your hardware, it's a pretty benign process. On the laptop side, it's always been harder since you can't really control the components, but I imagine it's just as easy nowadays.
To answer your question Evan, yes, you could just do this on your own. Just find the compatiable laptop, and lifehacker does a fairly good job of keeping their "always up to date" hackintosh guide.. well.. up to date.
Florent Destremau: @oelmekki oh yes...
Justin Mitchell: @frassmith @mlsj1 @cdf1982 @_jacksmith Does a C&D make it any less of a product though? I for one would much rather see this kind of fun, ingenuity than the slew of Youtube Downloaders that seem to have hit the site all of a sudden. So what if it gets shut down? The team behind it learned during the process, got a chance to engage with the community, and maybe even made some $$. That's what the product development life is all about.
Hari Jeevakumar: @altvu it'd be a small niche of people that would buy a Hacbook. I doubt Apple will "tighten it's OS X" as a result of this project lol
Jack Kim: @ghobs91 The HP EliteBook and ProBook are known to be very friendly with Hackintosh setup and there's a lot of support from the community!
Jack Smith: @evankimbrell what do you mean by do it on newegg/amazon, you mean buy the parts? - you probably could; but my understanding is that one of the main things about 'hackintosh' builds is you need drivers and components that are compatible with ios
Chuck Burt: @jack7kim "...and realized there's no pre-built, ready-to-run product that non-technical folks (or Hackintosh enthusiasts) can just buy and start using." There have been before and there will be again—but they never lost long. The Apple legal machine is efficient.
@acpmasquerade @_jacksmith Well, I would say that claiming to run OS X would be pretty high on the list given that OS X licence agreement likely forbids running the OS on any non Apple platform. (that said, I haven't read the OS C Ts&Cs, have you?)
Also, just a personal feeling, I'd think Apple would be seriously pissed off at having its OS associated with such an ugly, dated brick of a machine. My MBP may be 4 years old, but it looks 10 years newer than that brick.
Kevin Jung: @jack7kim Given that you don't get shut down by Apple, what would the logistics involved in supporting future OS releases and doing updates? Given the nature of a Hackintosh, the update will most likely break a lot of things.
Jack Smith: @plaetzchen yeah, it doesn't look great. They've just used a cheap HP case to keep the costs low I presume. But for the use-case that the maker describes above (a student wanting to make iOS apps, but not being able to afford a macbook), it seems like an ideal fit.
Brian Roach: @kurtybot nix the HP logos while your at it.
Nikola Stojic: @tony_anastasi @jack7kim @15greenberg To be honest, my machine usually lasts 6 -/+ hours on battery. They are speed wise ok for what they offer at 270$, and I really consider them somewhat of a entry device, or let's say, a "first aid" devices for some tasks that you need, but don't have the money to buy MacBook at the moment. Working with it let's you to experience OS X for all that's it worth and making MacBook buying later on so much easier without doubts and fear of how the OS works.
@itsthisjustin @mlsj1 @cdf1982 @_jacksmith The only product I see here is a web page. There is no evidence that this 'Hackbook' even exists.
The site claims that this is ready for the latest release of OS X, yet even the photos on the website are photoshopped with screenshots from the OS X Yosemite Beta/Launch. That doesn't instil confidence. If it's truly ready for the latest release, maybe they should have photoshopped it with the latest release.
So, good luck to the makers. They made a product (a website) that may even generate some cash for them before Apple's lawyers shut them down. Nice. Money for nothing.
Good luck to anyone trying to get a refund when that happens.
Avi Parshan: @imran_hussain1 I was just going to say that
Tony Anastasi: @jack7kim @zeusoft @15greenberg how are these things compared speed wise to what's on offer now from these old slow A-branded products we have been using and waiting for so long to be updated/refreshed from apple... :(
Imran Hussain: @thisisjason they will. No company wants to be associated with business practices that they have not officially approved of or can put them in trouble with another company. Here, I would say official permission is likely not obtained. If it was, for the purpose of hackintosh, Apple wouldn't be happy with HP.
Jack Smith: @altvu per the user's description above, this project wasn't started to make money. It was started because the maker wanted to make iOS apps and needed a machine to run x-code, but couldn't afford it as a student, so he built this project.
Jack Kim: @joshuarcher yep, that was actually the sole reason i started the project in the first place
Jack Smith: @frassmith my limited understanding is that it's the former, and they have some press coming out in a few hours to supplement their launch on PH.
Allan Zhang: @andmpel Seriously. It's like everyone is a legal expert on this thread.
Jason Burns: @imran_hussain1 haha... Think I saw the HP logo in there too. Wonder if they'll make a fuss!
Justin Mitchell: @_jacksmith @jesse_hu Super possible now that the Nvidia 10 series is available. I just bought an MSI Stealth that is thinner than my Macbook Retina and has a desktop grade GPU in it.
Jack Smith: @adamzikmund per discussion above, it's a grey area
@andmpel Andrew - yes, it's a real shame to see so much negativity; not something often associated with product hunt.
@daspianist : yep. lots of people may well be right about the legal side of things; the bigger shame is people thinking it's acceptable to call a project 'awful' or looking like 'shit'.
Jp Valery: @cdf1982 If you feel that the product doesn't belong here, just flag it :) It seems that you and Jack will never agree :)
(ᵔᴥᵔ)✌: @jack7kim @_jacksmith Very cool. I avoid Hackintosh because I figure it'll be too much trouble ironing out kinks throughout the generations. Have you planned for OS updates? Will you help people when Apple inevitably foils your hack with its latest OS?
Jack Smith: @acpmasquerade "I've checked the SLA and it forbids it" - per my multiple comments on this: you can shove whatever shit you want in the SLA, it doesn't mean that it's legally enforceable. Apple's SLA also says you can't jailbreak your iPhone, but the courts decided that you can.
Jack Smith: @jesse_hu great point. Oculus has said they'll build for Mac, once Apple starts shipping Macs with decent graphics cards :)
@ethan021021 why's it "not for PH" ? it's a product. PH is a collection of products; until something is deemed illegal (and in which case they can get the website taken down).
I don't believe that websites for discussion, such as Hacker News, or Product Hunt, should try and be judge and jury about what can be discussed. There are proper routes and legal procedures for taking down a product that truly infringes in the law; until then it's free speech to discuss a product, no matter how controversial. Some of these products will appeal to people to people that want to discover them, and some will prove controversial (e.g. the various versions of Popcorn time that have been shared on PH). But I think that people are mature enough to discuss controversial products, without the need for censorship.
Jack Smith: @frassmith The license agreement does forbid it. But there is debate if such a term is legally enforceable. Apple's terms of service also state that jailbreaking iOS isn't allowed - but the courts decided that users should legally be allowed to jailbreak something they've paid for.
Jack Kim: @shellen Thanks, will fix
Jason Shellen: @jack7kim Minor misspelling of 'resistent' should be 'resistant'.
Jack Kim: @sercanov Contact and FAQ are on the bottom of the website. I'll update it to make it more clear. Feel free to tweet me with questions as well
@_jacksmith Well, if it's against the creator terms and conditions, it matters to me (and, I assume, to the 17 people who upvoted the "Apple's cease and desist letter coming in 3.. 2.. 1.." comment above).
As for the comparison with iPhone jailbreaking (which I don't personally like either), in that case you paid for a product, so it makes sense that you do whatever you want with it; please let me know where Apple receives money for Mac OS X, that is distributed for free to work with their hardware, in this particular case.
My words were indeed a bit harsh, and I apologize for that, but I still believe that this is not the kind of product that belongs to PH, since it's intention is to exploit someone else's IP, and I also still believe that the case of that god-awful HP laptop adds to the insult to Apple love for beautiful products.
cdf1982: @_jacksmith Nobody stops you from installing Windows or Linux on Mac hardware either, because you OWN that hardware... but here we're talking about the opposite. I repeat myself (and then I'll move on from this, honestly we're not going anywhere and usually I don't get involved in pointless online discussions), but it's needed: OS X license and jailbreaking have nothing in common, the legality of the second doesn't legitimize the exploiting of Apple's operating system on third party hardware; while Apple seems to tolerate the "indie" approach to hackintoshes, sure this won't pass, and I feel sorry for the creator, because a letter from Apple Legal will be much worse than my "awful as expected" (which referred to the ugliness of seeing OS X running on such a bad-looking laptop) comment.
@_jacksmith @acpmasquerade well, in this case it's not "whatever shit" in the SLA, it's pretty fundamental since the operating system is the main thing that distinguish a Mac from another PC, so Apple has every right to demand that it's intellectual property, for which you don't pay for and ONLY license according to their terms, is not used on competitor's hardware.
Let's just bookmark http://hacbook.com and check if it's still online in a couple of weeks...
cdf1982: @acpmasquerade Here's the SLA for OS X 10.11 http://images.apple.com/legal/sl... : "...you are granted a limited, non- exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple- branded computer at any one time."
@ethan021021 sure. But they can give it a fair-shot if they want; it's their responsibility to assess the risks.
imho if someone wants to invent the next Napster - they should be able to give it a try and websites like Reddit/Product Hunt/Hacker News should be able to discuss the product. Then, if someone feels their IP is being misused, they can tell the creator to stop, and if the creator doesn't comply; then they can sue them.
Overall though, Sean Parker didn't get into too much "trouble" for creating Napster (one of the most clear examples of a company built on exploiting the IP of other companies). He had a short period of bankruptcy, but then went on to have founding roles at Facebook and Spotify.
@frassmith yep, it would breach Apple's EULA. But federal law would supercede the EULA in determining if such a term is legal (currently up for debate). It's against the EULA to jailbreak your iPhone, but the federal court ruled that Apple can't restrict you doing that.
RE "If I wanted to buy a 4 year old design, I'd, er, buy a Macbook Pro" - that's fine, you do that. But some people (e.g. students, as the user highlights), might not want to spend the amount of money that a Macbook Pro costs. Apple is still selling 4 year old designs for $1099 (see Verge article linked above).
Mehmet Perk: @louisdv Hardware development is not that fast anymore. For example I have a 3 years old laptop and the society is pushing me to buy a new one, but I still couldn't find one with better specs in the same category.
Jack Smith: @acpmasquerade they could say that the sales tagline shouldn't include "a fully-functional Mac", as that's a trademark. They could say that the choice of font-face makes it look like an Apple product. etc.
cdf1982: @_jacksmith that it doesn't come with Apple' OS installed has been clarified later. Nevertheless, the intention to gain on Apple IP is still pretty clear, and this goes against Mac OS X terms and conditions, it might be a gray area but intent still matters. Of course I'd like everybody like my app, but I know it won't happen, and I know I wrote all the code - good or bad - myself. If you don't see a difference here, I won't be the one to convince you.
@_jacksmith @kingliv_ Look at all the licensed Mac clones out there. It wont take long. There aren't any. Remember the days when Apple did allow clones and Jobs killed it on his return?
I'm sure Apple doesn't really care about the grassroots Hackintosh movement, but the minute somebody claims to have a product that anyone can buy and install OS X on, Apple's not going to like it. Apple doesn't allow clones. The lawyers letters will be flying. It doesn't matter how grey the area is, that doesn't bother the lawyers.
I wouldn't order one of these without a crystal clear confirmation of a full refund if they can't deliver, and even then, I wouldn't order one.
@cdf1982 "please let me know where Apple receives money for Mac OS X" - here: http://www.apple.com/shop/produc...
Apple sells OS X on their website. A user buys a copy, then they can install it on a machine.
Jack Smith: @cdf1982 what do you feel is awful about it?
@cdf1982 iOS and the Apple App Store is also what differentiates an iPhone from an Android. That doesn't enable Apple to stop you jailbreaking your phone and using the Cydia store though.
I agree. You're right that it's highly likely this product wont be online in a few weeks, I don't dispute that. I'm just confused why you're so upset about its existence and feel the need to call someone's project that they've worked on 'awful'. It's trending at #1 on product hunt with over 100 upvotes in the few hours that it's been live, so clearly there's an audience that find it to be an interesting product.
Jack Kim: @filipeferres yep, should be!
cdf1982: @_jacksmith the illegal appropriation of Apple's operating system, with the added insult of installing it in the most obnoxious laptop case I've ever seen since the 90s
Fraser Smith: @_jacksmith Indeed, but hackintoshes are rarely marketed and sold as a finished product. They're usually, very much a grass-roots do-it-yourself thing.
Olivier El Mekki: (or you could also release xcode on linux, that would be perfectly fine ^^ )
cdf1982: @acpmasquerade mainly two things: OS X licenses requires the installation on Apple hardware (and I believe the workaround from the creator of this product is not to include OS X, albeit the intent is clearly advertised on the website), and most important, the product is advertised as a "fully functional Mac", but Mac is a trademark; no workaround on this, but to change heavily the copy on their website.
cdf1982: @_jacksmith as for the 10.11 SLA above, also the 10.7 SLA states that you don't buy, but license, Mac OS X Lion. You don't own it to do whatever you want with it. And as I've explained before, the website claims that this computer runs the last version of OS X, so it makes absolutely no sense to keep referring to 10.7.
Jack Smith: @cdf1982 " you don't purchase OS X" - as I clarified for you earlier, you can buy OS X from Apple's website (regardless if it's an old version or not).
Dhruba Adhikari: @_jacksmith @frassmith Let's say they forbid by their terms. But its easier to claim that the price was in favor of allowing to be installed on their branded hardwares only. If they had to allow to install on other hardwares, the prices could have been even higher. :meh
cdf1982: @acpmasquerade also, the 3rd line: "For use on Apple-branded Systems"
cdf1982: @frassmith @acpmasquerade completely agree; I've checked the SLA (see my other answer here) and it forbids it. I'm also sure the case of that HP laptop would piss Apple more than the actual hackintosh itself ;)
Fraser Smith: @curiousigor It's probably similar to the battery life of the HP that it's built on. If they don't mention it, it's because they don't want to draw attention to it.
Dhruba Adhikari: @cdf1982 second one is very true, and I was sure about that. I couldn't see the first condition mentioned anywhere. Do you have a link where it says MacOS is required to be installed on Apple hardwares only ?
Anton.Bal: @ethan021021 Haha, too "disruptive" for your liking? ;)
Jack Smith: @cdf1982 I'm not making fun of you. You asked me "please let me know where Apple receives money for Mac OS X", and so I answered your question by linking to where they Apple receives money by OS X on their website.
Ethan Thomas: @_jacksmith I don't think that the poster would be getting in trouble but the makers of the product
@ethan021021 I posted the product on Product Hunt. I think that I would get in trouble just for posting a link to a product's website.
RE HP letting people resell their laptops: I'm not sure. If they don't like it, then they can send this team a cease and desist notice.
@cdf1982 right... so someone could just buy os x 10.7, I don't see this relates to your assertion that Apple can't monetize Mac OS X. Apple sell OS X on their website; they don't give it away for free if you haven't bought it separately, or had it pre-installed with an Apple computer.
the maker has already confirmed above that this is "a ready-to-run *kit* that doesn't come with OS X"
@cdf1982 it doesn't matter if it goes against Apple's terms and conditions. Jailbreaking the iPhone also goes against Apple's terms and conditions; but that didn't stop the court deciding that it's actually legal: https://www.wired.com/2010/07/fe... - as such, a similar logic could also suggest that installing a version of OS X that you bought, wherever you want, may also fall under that same law.
Yes, I'm not saying that someone isn't allowed to dislike your app, or this project. I'm saying "It's as awful as you'd expect. I won't feel sorry for them" seems an overly negative choice of words, vs just expressing that you don't like the concept.
Cristi`quad`Glodeanu: @imran_hussain1 ahaha, I was thinking the same :))
Jack Smith: @frassmith hackintosh builds have been around for many many years
Jack Smith: @kingliv_ I wouldn't say so. The legality of mackintosh builds is very much a grey area. It's not explicitly illegal, as a number of companies are challenging Apple on it. Realistically if you buy OS X, many people would say that you should be able to install that on whatever hardware you want. - this is the line of thinking that the courts have applied to jailbreaking iOS/iphone devices.
Jack Smith: @frassmith fair point
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